Tuesday, March 28, 2006
Lou Dobbs: L.A. Demonstrations Are Riots; Illegal Aliens Are Criminals: And We Shouldn't Celebrate St. Patricks Day. Lou you really are a hack.
Lou called the demonstrations in L.A. riots:
And Peter Viles is live in Los Angeles, where he will be reporting on historic protests in favor of illegal alien rights. Those riots continue at this very hour.
Illegal aliens, their supporters once again tonight trying to influence the country's political process with new protests and demonstrations. The largest demonstrations have been in Los Angeles today, where illegal aliens and their supporters are demanding rights of U.S. citizenship often while flying Mexican flags.
VILES: Well, not these fellows here, but we have asked others why the flag of Mexico and the flags of Guatemala and other nations. One woman told us, "Yes, I'm an American, but I have to stand up for my culture and I have to support my heritage and other people with that heritage."
Not a particularly American idea when it comes to civics and politics, but it is certainly prevailing here in Los Angeles.
(Not a particularly American Idea? Ever heard of St. Patrick’s Day? The Melting Pot?)
In our poll tonight the question is very simple. Are you astounded that illegal aliens would demonstrate to protest the enforcement of the borders they crossed illegally to enter this country in the first place? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll have the results later here in the broadcast.
SENSENBRENNER: Well that shows how hard it is to do anything about illegal aliens and border security. But if we don't do something effective and workable, we're going to have 20 million more illegal aliens in the next 10 years, according to a demographic study I've seen.
They'll flood our schools. Our health care system will collapse. And our social services system will end up being overtaxed. And we've got to get control of our borders because if we don't, we're going to see our economy collapse.
DOBBS: Well, that economy, we know the estimates by the most authoritative and recent study put the suppressed wages at $200 billion a year as a result of immigration, both legal and illegal. We know that the costs, the estimated costs run about $50 billion for services. And I can't tell you, Mr. Chairman, how many people have said to me, typically open border activists, activists in support of illegal aliens, saying, but we provide $7 billion in Social Security taxes every year, as if that is some sort of reasonable offset.
(Dear Lou, if illegal aliens provide 7 billion in social security taxes, how much do they provide in Gas Taxes? Hotel Taxes? Automobile Taxes? Property Taxes? Cigarette Taxes? Alcohol Taxes? You act like these numbers are static. You’re fucking moron.)
SENSENBRENNER: You know, the fact of the matter remains is that I don't want to hear anybody come and complaining about the fact that illegal aliens are flooding the school system and the hospital system and that the federal government ought to bail them out because we're trying to curtail this. And he sure is on the other side.
DOBBS: It's amazing. One understands the emotion involved in this. The -- the thing that I have a difficulty understanding -- and I would love to know what your reaction is -- why there should be any debate.
Dobbs: It seems to me you cannot possibly -- and if anybody will defeat the logic of this syllogism, I'll be glad to step aside on the national discussion and debate on illegal immigration and border security. It seems to me straightforward.
We cannot reform immigration if we cannot control immigration. We cannot control immigration unless we can secure our borders and control those borders.
Is there something here I'm missing?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, anywhere from 3,000 to 8,000 illegal aliens will cross the border. Most disappearing into American society. A wave of illegal immigration affecting every aspect of American life. Undercutting wages and jobs for low-skilled Americans and legal immigrants and crowding classrooms, hospitals and prisons.
ROMANS: According to the Pew Hispanic Center, more people are now coming here illegally than through legal channels. More than half enter without a high school education, and American public schools educate their children.
The Federation for American Immigration Reform says taxpayers spend $12 billion a year on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally. Another $17 billion for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
It is federal law to provide free emergency health care to those here illegally. Congress has set aside a billion taxpayer dollars each year to reimburse all hospitals. A total, administrators complain, is a fraction of their costs.
Meanwhile, employers hire cheap labor with virtually no risk. The Government Accountability Office found only three employers fined in 2004 for illegal hiring, down from 417 in 1999.
At the same time, America's criminal justice system is bulging with these citizens of other countries. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens. At a cost of $63 a day, taxpayers spend more than $3 million every day to house non-U.S. citizen dollars in our federal prisons. Most are thought to be illegal aliens.
DOBBS: The Sensenbrenner legislation is sort of off focused right now, except in these demonstrations. We're watching a guest worker program move through. It looks like everybody's going to get what they want as far as the Judiciary Committee on ag workers and the hell with border security and controlling immigration. What do you think?
MURGUIA: That's not true. There's got to be...
DOBBS: ... Which part isn't true?
MURGUIA: Well enforcement and security have to be part of a comprehensive solution to this crisis that we're seeing happening right now in immigration. And the McCain-Kennedy bill, which is the focus of the Senate Judiciary Committee meeting today, really has security and enforcement measures in it. They do.
DOBBS: You and I both know ...
MURGUIA: ... They do, and we know it has to be part of it.
DOBBS: There is no way you could even talk about border security in that legislation. Secondly, it is nothing more than a pay for citizenship. I mean it is a disastrous attempt in immigration reform.
MURGUIA: That's your opinion, but the fact is...
DOBBS: It is and that's who I'm speaking for.
MURGUIA: ... we've got a broad coalition that was a bipartisan vote that came out and conservatives like Sam Brownback and Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, those aren't exactly your liberals, they support.
DOBBS: I don't care what they are.
MURGUIA: Well but they support the McCain-Kennedy solution on this ...
DOBBS: Well, good for them.
MURGUIA: ... in the Senate Judiciary Committee.
DOBBS: I think they're wrong-headed as they can possible be.
MURGUIA: Well the fact of the matter is, is we want to find solutions. We can all have opinions about what we think of the issue and we know it's broken, but let's focus on solutions. This is a comprehensive solution that offers security. It offers a guest worker program and it offers a way to deal with the 11-to-12 million undocumented folks who are here.
DOBBS: It gives them a chance to buy citizenship, the McCain -- and that's simply what it is. It is a guest worker program. This president talking about a guest worker program. There is no security for the borders.
And just help me out with this, Janet. Explain to me something just as simple as I can, because what you're talking about are conservatives and liberals at the far end of this debate, both as liberals and conservatives, and frankly I think there is wrong-head at both ends because they merge on this.
They're both owned by the corporate interests and the special interests in this country. The Democrats looking for votes. The Republicans looking to exploit cheap labor. There's no significant fine against illegal employers and you and I both know it. There's not another element of border security.
MURGUIA: There's a broad coalition that includes business industry, labor, the Catholic Church.
DOBBS: Here, let me give you a broad...
MURGUIA: ... No, but just a second. Give me a chance here. What we've seen is a lot of people come together and say, "We have to have -- we're a nation of laws and we're a nation of immigrants. We can be a welcoming society and we can be a society that's a lawful society."
This McCain-Kennedy bill offers the right balance that says we can have enforcement of security, but it also recognizes that we need to deal with the future flow of immigrants and this guest worker provision is not amnesty. It basically says people have to go to the end the line, pay fines and learn English and then they can qualify. And then it says we have to deal practically with the 12 million who are here. The Sensenbrenner bill doesn't do that.
DOBBS: Why are all those demonstrators out there carrying Mexican flags?
MURGUIA: Well there's a sense of pride with anybody. We just had St. Patrick's Day. Are you saying that Irish, because they're holding up their Irish flags, that all of a sudden they're not loyal or they're un-American? It's a double standard to say that people from one country can wave their flag, but people who want to be Americans can wave another flag, but they're not being loyal. That's a double standard. Irish Americans...
DOBBS: ... Are you accusing me of a double standard? (editor's note: yes Lou, I'm accusing you of a double standard. In fact I'm accusing you of being a racist.)
MURGUIA: Well, I'm just saying.
DOBBS: Because I want you to look me in the eye and I want you to hear me loud and clear.
MURGUIA: Yes, I'm right here.
DOBBS: OK, are you ready to listen to me loud and clear?
MURGUIA: I'm here.
DOBBS: I don't think that we should have any flag flying in this country except the flag of the United States. And let me tell you something else, since we're talking about double standards and I think you're right about people who would believe that.
But let's be clear. I don't think there should be a St. Patrick's Day. I don't care who you are. I think we ought to be celebrating what is common about this country, what we enjoy as similarities as people. And as Peter Viles was reporting, talking about the culture and the heritage of their people and that's why they want to hold up the Mexican flag or Ecuadorian flag.
MURGUIA: No, this is about the American dream, this is about the aspirations of being Americans.
DOBBS: No, let me finish. No, the American dream is being ripped out of the hands of millions of U.S. citizens today. Their jobs are being outsourced. Their schools are falling apart. Half of the Hispanics in this country are dropping out of high school, half of them, and you know that. Half of our -- young blacks are dropping out of high school.
MURGUIA: But look at the contributions. Look at the contributions that immigrants are making. They're paying federal taxes.
DOBBS: Not immigrants, not immigrants, no they're not.
MURGUIA: But Hispanics immigrants, they are paying federal taxes.
MURGUIA: Hispanics and immigrants contribute $519 billion into the Social Security trust fund, a trust fund that's going to pay your Social Security benefits.
DOBBS: Let me given you a real piece of bad news for you. Over half of those people coming to this country illegally don't have a high school education. They're going to be a net drag on the social services of this country. We're going to be supporting them, our social safety net.
MURGUIA: They're going to provide the work force that's up to 25 percent of that work force that is contributing and sustaining the Social Security trust fund that you and many others are going to be able to benefit, $519 billion.
DOBBS: $519 billion? Janet, can I tell you right now, and I want to say this in front of God and everybody, whoever told you that illegal immigrants are going to contribute $519 billion...
MURGUIA: ... Immigrants and Hispanics.
DOBBS: Hispanics now? Now you're saying...
MURGUIA: ... I'm saying that -- you can look it...
DOBBS: .... Excuse me. Do you think that most Hispanics in this country buy this nonsense, that illegal immigration is great?
You don't think that there's a division in what Hispanics and Latinos in this country think about illegal immigration?
MURGUIA: No, I think that there are a lot of people who bring different points of view. But I think they all recognize that there's a common objective.
DOBBS: But why would you incorporate what Hispanics do?
MURGUIA: There's a common agenda here in the sense that we want to provide an opportunity to fix the broken system. It needs a comprehensive solution...
DOBBS: OK, here's a solution.
MURGUIA: ... that includes enforcement and it includes a guest worker program in dealing with those 12 million undocument.
DOBBS: Here's a solution. You tell me what's wrong it. First we secure our borders. Then we create a rational and humane immigration policy. We take control of the immigration and our borders in that order.
MURGUIA: We can do enforcement and we can make sure we're supporting some opportunities. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. We really can, we're in the 21st century, we can figure this out. We're a nation of laws and a nation with immigrations. DOBBS: Janet, I would love to say you're right, but you're watching people go on the set and say they're not talking about amnesty when they're talking about guest workers program. You're watching people sit there and say to you that they're -- please, they're equating Hispanics and illegal aliens.
MURGUIA: We've poured millions and billions of dollars into enforcement-only approaches.
DOBBS: Are you not doing that? Equating Hispanics and illegal aliens?
DOBBS: You said Hispanics and immigrants?
MURGUIA: No, I'm not doing that. I think other people are doing that.
DOBBS: Where did you get the $519 billion?
MURGUIA: We have a documented report that shows in the Social Security suspension files when they look at who isn't -- they can't identify names, they look at who is contributing. Those are often immigrants without documents who are paying into the Social Security system.
DOBBS: Seven billion dollars a year, do you know what they're costing in terms of social service and suppressed wages a year.
MURGUIA: I'm just saying, they're going to see a lot of...
DOBBS: It's a quarter of a billion dollars.
MURGUIA: ... the economic vitality that we see in this country is due in large part to the immigrant work force.
DOBBS: Why do you say immigrant? We're talking about illegal immigration.
MURGUIA: Well there's immigrants here who are contributing to that.
DOBBS: I would hope so, they have for 200 years.
MURGUIA: Yes, right.
DOBBS: But what about the illegals?
MURGUIA: Let's fix the system, Lou. Let's get a solution that works...
DOBBS: ... That's right, secure the border and then we can worry about the rest.
MURGUIA: But we can secure the border and find opportunities to deal with this. If we just do enforcement only, that's what we did in 1996.
DOBBS: It's four and a half years after September 11th...
MURGUIA: And it hasn't worked.
DOBBS: ... we've got a Homeland Security Department that still can't secure a port or a border. We have got a big problem. We can't walk and chew gum, not with this government and not with this administration.
MURGUIA: And American people...
DOBBS: Janet Murguia of La Raza...
MURGUIA: (INAUDIBLE) aspire to that, I think, and we can figure this out.
DOBBS: Janet Murguia, the head of La Raza. Good to have you with us.
MURGUIA: Nice to see you here.